4" Be 2"

Vivien Goldman

Creation Rebel, New Age Steppers

British Electric Foundation

Edie Brickell & the New Bohemians

Mountain Dew Commercial

Doc Tahri

Blacksmoke

  4" Be 2"

Before we start, John had NO real involvement in any of these 4"Be 2" records, but lets explain… We're only mentioning them in this discography as a way of warning people who don't know better...

4"Be 2" were formed by John's brother Jimmy Lydon along with Jock McDonald (real name O'Donnell); and featured a whole host of Lydon family & associates, including Youth from Killing Joke. John's other brother Martin sometimes appeared with them; as did a certain John "Rambo" Stevens... The band's name was taken from an Irish nickname for a plank of wood, and not rhyming slang. Honest.

The 4" Be 2" claimed John Lydon produced most of their material. However, as far as we know his only involvement, apart from socialising, was to possibly produce their first two singles. Though he later denied working with them at all! Claiming it was just a Jock McDonald cash in... Probably the most infamous John Lydon / 4"Be 2" "collaboration" is the trip to Dublin in 1980, where John ended up in Mountjoy Prison after being beaten up by a barman.

By Autumn 1981 the 4"Be 2" broke up and Jimmy retired into marriage, the rest of the band – with McDonald on vocals – had already released two 12"singles in 1980 and 1981 under the name The Bollock Brothers. Many of the Bollock Brothers (and related) releases had a habit of stating that "J. Lydon", appeared on, or produced them. However, this easily could have been Jimmy and not John Lydon.

Be warned! Various other Bollock Brothers / 4" Be 2" records have been released under a variety of names. Despite what they say about John Lydon's involvement, basically, it's just a scam, avoid them all (except the dub version of 'One of the Lads' which is actually not a bad record).

7" ONE OF THE LADS / UMMBABA (p/s)

ISLAND WIP6530

(8/79)

12": ONE OF THE LADS (Dub Version) / ONE OF THE LADS / UMMBABA (p/s)

ISLAND WIP6530

(11/79)

(Credited as "Produced by John Lydon")

Debut single by the 4" Be 2". John Lydon allegedly produces both tracks. Bass guitar by Youth Martin of Killing Joke. Sleeve concept and photography by Dennis Morris.

7": FRUSTRATION / CAN'T EXPLAIN (p/s)

WEA K18290

(7/80)

(Credited as "Produced by John Lydon")

Second single by the band. 'Frustration' was allegedly produced by John Lydon, who is pictured on the sleeve under the name "Pig Youth". He also gets a co-writing credit on the A-side under the same name. Music press reports from the time claim that he also played bass on the B-side. However, it seems very unlikely, and rumour has it he actually fell asleep during the recording!

A 'Dub Version' of the track also appeared on the 1986 'Lydon & O'Donnell Family Album' (MBC JOCKLP5)

12": ALL OF THE LADS / JIMMY JONES / BITCH

McDONALD LYDON
SHAMROCK-1

(4/81)

(Credited as "Produced by John Lydon")

Last 12" single from the band, now on their own label. John Lydon allegedly mixed and produced the two songs on the B-side.

Martin Lydon's address is printed on the cover for T-shirts and info ("for T-shirts or info on the 4"Be 2"s write to Martin Lydon...").

LP: THE LYDON AND O'DONNEL'S FAMILY ALBUM

MBC JOCKLP5

(6/86)

(Features; One Of The Lads (Dub Version)' / Frustration (Dub Version) / Jimmy Jones / Bitch)

Jock McDonald compilation album featuring all the alleged John Lydon / 4" Be 2" releases. The remainder of the album features Bollock Brothers tracks.

BOOTLEG LP: D WING

UD 6533

(?/81)

FRUSTRATION / DC-10 / CELTIC ORIGIN / DO THE HUCKLEBACK / BELFAST / FRUSTRATION (AGAIN)

'Hot Wacks' lists this Japanese bootleg (by the same label who released PiL's 'Sci-Fi' album). Apparently it features studio recordings almost certainly recorded in mid 1980 when the band recorded the 'Frustration' single. Therefor it's possible it features John Lydon in some shape or form; possible...

Vivien Goldman

John Lydon is credited with co-producing 'Laundrette' along with Goldman and Keith Levene (who also plays guitar and bass). Apparently this single by music journalist Vivien Goldman was recorded when "PiL snuck her into the Manor (studios)" during the Flowers Of Romance sessions in late 1980; with PiL also reportedly paying for most of the recording costs. It seems this is how Lydon earned his co-producer credit.

Steve New (aka Shooz) plays drums on the tracks, and was presumably recorded at the same time as PiL's obscure track 'Pied Piper' featuring New on guitar.

7": LAUNDRETTE / PRIVATE ARMIES (p/s)

WINDOW WIN 1

(7/81)

(Limited edition gatefold sleeve)

12": DIRTY WASHING EP
LAUNDRETTE / PRIVATE ARMIES / PA DUB (p/s)

99 RECORDS 9905EP

(?/81)

(Unique US only 12" release)

CD: ANTI NY

GOMMA RECORDS 015

(9/01)

Features the original version of 'Launderette' along with a specially commissioned 2001 remix - 'Launderette' (Munk version)

German compilation CD featuring seven songs that were licensed to 99 Records in New York in the eighties, several new remixes have also been added.

Creation Rebel New Age Steppers

It's not widely reported but there has always been a little PiL / On-U-Sound crossover. Both Jah Wobble and Keith Levene have worked on-and-off with the label over a number of years (see their discographies for more info). The Vivien Goldman 'Laundrette' single mentioned above also involved Adrian Sherwood, the label's founder. Sherwood has stated on many occasions that PiL were a huge influence on the early On-U-Sound releases; some were even recorded in the same studio by the same engineer.

The On-U / PiL collaborations started when Lydon became friendly with Sherwood in the late seventies, John recommended that Sherwood worked with Levene and Wobble, as they shared a similar outlook on music. However, he never appeared on the records himself. The closest he ever came to it was this VERY small "la, la, la" at the end of 'Mother Don't Cry' for which he was credited with "Vocal Harmony"!

It's most likely PiL and On-U-Sound were in the same studio at the same time (probably the Manor), and this brief appearance originated from there…

LP/CD: PSYCHOTIC JUNKANOO

STATIC STAT-LP 4

(10/81)

(Features on 'Mother Don't Cry')

John Lydon (listed as "Lydon") is credited with contributing "Vocal Harmony" to the track 'Mother Don't Cry'. However, his contribution only amounts to a tuneless"la, la, la" at the very end of the track (4:05), just before the dub kicks in...

The LP was later reissued on CD by ON-U-SOUND/CHERRY RED (ONUCD 004, ?/91), and the track has appeared on various compilations.

British Electric Foundation

This is a very obscure collaboration, and unfortunately it still remains UNRELEASED… John Lydon recorded two "reggae" tracks in a studio in Kranzberg (near Munich), Germany, around October 1990 for 'Music of Quality and Distinction 2'. A various artists compilation, presented by "British Electric Foundation" (a pseudonym for Heaven 17).

From the CD liner notes: "People we approached: John Lydon first person to agree to do album, recorded two reggae tracks in Germany, excellent but didn't fit into eventual album concept". "Thanks: John Lydon-the world WILL hear what we did." Lydon is also credited (among others) with "research". Other artists featured include: Tina Turner, Terence Trent D'Arby & Billy Mackenzie.

Produced by Martyn Ware (Heaven 17) the tracks are titled 'One Fine Day' & 'Punishment' (which included the line, "No one shall escape the punishment of John"). What happened to the two songs? Martyn Ware: "I have searched high and low for them, and they have disappeared off the face of the earth."

Hopefully at some point both tracks will resurface and get a release.

LP/CD: BRITISH ELECTRIC FOUNDATION

TEN RECORDS DIX 108

(9/91)

Does NOT feature 'Punishment' & 'One Fine Day'!

Edie Brickell & The New Bohemians

John Lydon is credited with contributing backing vocals to 'Strings Of Love' on Brickell's 1990 album 'Ghost Of A Dog'. It's not a major contribution, in fact, the only time you can hear him is on a faint "wooo" at the very end!

Apparently this collaboration with the acoustic rocker came about through 'Don't Ask Me' producer Tony Berg, who also produced Brickell's album; and was recorded around the same time.

LP/CD: GHOST OF A DOG

GEFFEN G19269

(10/90)

(Features 'Strings Of Love')

Mountain Dew Commercial

in 1996 John Lydon was hired by 'Mountain Dew' (soft drink) to record a vocal for a short version of 'Route 66' to be used in a US TV commercial. Lydon recorded the vocal at his own Rotten Studio; in his LA home. He later had no qualms in admitting he did it for the money, and stated that the cash went towards equipment for Rotten Studios. He also stated it was a good way of testing the studio out.

The track was originally recorded by session men with a different vocal, however, the producers were not happy with the vocal and Lydon was asked to re-record it (not the backing track).

The commercial went on air in March 1996 (USA only). Lydon does not appear in the ad, and the track has never received a commercial release.

Doc Tahri

Did he or didn't he? Well he didn't…

Rumour had it that John Lydon made a guest appearance on the 1996 Doc Tahri album 'Einstein Was a Bullfighter' fronted by former PiL bass player Brett Helm. The track 'Arrest This' featured backing vocals credited to "Logan", which had been rumoured was a pseudonym for Lydon. However, John later completely denied any involvement; and it turns out Logan was in fact the singer from the band Thumpasauras (which were signed to the same label).

This album was recorded to mark the Doc Tahri's 10th Anniversary, and featured several guest appearances (but NOT John Lydon!). The confusion over Lydon's involvement seems to have started from reports that an early press release stated he was to appear. It has to be said that the backing vocal on the track does sound a little like Lydon – and your ears can play tricks on you – but lets be honest, there's only one John Lydon! Fuel to the fire was added that Doc Tahri were also reportedly lined up as support for Lydon's aborted US 1997 tour.

With the exception of Brett Helm's involvement, the closest thing to a further PiL connection is that former PiL guitarist Mark Schulz also appears on the album. Schulz and Helm were both part of the 1984 live line-up that was disbanded prior to the recording of 'Album'.

CD: EINSTEIN WAS A BULLFIGHTER

CASH ONLY COR 0069

(1/96)

(Features 'Arrest This') NOT featuring John Lydon!

Originally released on Bret Helm's own Cash Only Records in 1996, then rereleased1997 by Musical Tragedies (MUSICAL TRAGEDIES, MT364)

Blacksmoke

Blacksmoke was a "multimedia art collective" (band & label etc) founded by Jimmy Cauty (formerly of KLF). John Lydon appears on the track 'Blacksmoke Rising' broadcast during a Radio 1 'Breezeblock' session in September 2003. However, there are no plans for it to receive a proper release.

It's worth noting the previously unheard track was broadcast without John Lydon's knowledge, or consent!

The vocal, with a completely different backing track, had been recorded "about five years before" for a proposed Lydon and Cauty project entitled 'In the Year 2525'. The project was eventually shelved over problems with the backing track. Lydon later told Fodderstompf:"The music wasn't right, and I couldn't be bothered to educate them…"

Another track supposedly featuring Lydon entitled 'Sailing by' was also mentioned on the Blacksmoke.org website, but has yet to surface.

NO RELEASES AVAILABLE !

N/A

N/A

Please note: a completely different version of 'Blacksmoke Rising' with another vocalist, and different lyrics, was available to download via the Blacksmoke.org website as part of the MP3 EP 'The War of Terror Starts Here'.